Curse

Bryant Again · Aug 31, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I cannot believe people think TNTF is now useless, honestly how bad can you possibly be at this game? It is still by far the best skill in PVE.

Gimped badly, and is still the best by far.

Now, we just need Mendes to post in here and this thread will have achieved Gold status.

Miss Eisei · Aug 31, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

easy way to have nerfed it and still make it usefull
just double the recharge
atm its unuseable imo without blessed aura +20% enchantweapon
and im not even gonna use it with that, say hello to old HS
seriously tho, it was a GOOD skill, yes powerfull as hell

but i thought that was half the point of the pve only skills, and why they limit how many we can have on our bars, cause they are more powerful

but like i said, double the recharge, it was 20, they could have made it 45, i would still have used it

oh and if ur nerfing stuff, whatever happened to "go for the eyes" or "fall back"
u do know they work on minions to right, its like having charge+healing on a bunch of minions with crithit addition :P

yeah yeah all u paragons chase me with ur torches , nanananana *goes 55* :P~

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Eisei

but like i said, double the recharge, it was 20, they could have made it 45, i would still have used it

Albeit a different approach to SoL than the one I mentioned, it still is better than the current one.

Andisa Kalorn · Aug 31, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

It seems to me that this nerf is aimed at how overpowered these skills are in end-game/hard mode PvE areas with human groups. The result is that the skills become useless for the players who H/H. Now, it seems that some of these players are incapable of playing the game without these recent PvE skills. How they managed before, who knows.

But will everyone stop and think about the fate of these players?! How dare Anet make them learn how to play the game without overpowered skills! Especially since their SF-reliance is about to meet a nasty end with the Destroyers! The complaints will be endless!

Honestly, I sorta liked the description of these skills when I saw them. Part of me laments their nerfing because I like the thought of them making things not impossibly difficult. But realistically, heroes have made the game far too brainless already. We don't need overpowered PvE skills. Everything can be done with H/H, or with the help of a friend or two, without any PvE skills at all, except for elite mission areas. And even then they were always doable before the introduction of PvE skills.

Playing on my paragon always seemed really easy even before the PvE skills - that's why she never died. And even with the PvE skills nerfed, she's still far more overpowered than before they were introduced in the first place.

Why is it so necessary to get into pugs anyway? Pugs suck. A good guild will recognize the value of a paragon. Or you can use H/H. Saying a class needs to be overpowered so it can join a pug is completely the wrong way to see it. It's the pug that's flawed, not the class, and no uber PvE skill is going to fix that.

As for the "walk in their shoes" argument: I spent much of summer vanquishing with my mesmer and H/H. I did it without TNTF or SoL. And I'm not that skilled... I know I suck at PvP and I'm fine with that. But back before heroes, when I used to pug... yeah I wished there was some uber mesmer skill that would let me get in easier. Turns out that the class is just fine if you actually play it on your own, and it's much easier than playing with a pug anyway.

cellardweller · Aug 31, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

The only healing spell just fell of my smite monks bar, no big loss.

TNTF still rocks socks - it was over the top crazy before, its very good now.

odly · Aug 31, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I allready thought the recharge was long before. :-(
I also thought the 10 energy was costly.
The only nerf I thought it "needed" was making it not trigger on life bond damage.

bonder + glyph of renewal seed of life was way overpowered. (It could still be good now even if would be on only 50% of the time.)
after all longer recharge won't matter one bit if you're using glyph.

But then you are using 2 very specific builds put together.

It's a PvE only skill it can be more powerfull than others, heroes cannot use it and you need to do some farming to max it out.

My best sugestion would be the shorter duration original recharge, but also less energy cost (5) and fast casting.

Something like :

3-6 sec duration, 1/4 sec, 5 energy, 15 sec recharge

Kashrlyyk · Aug 31, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

....
There is a fun aspect to the game that does not need to be Grind and Nerfed just because its easy for you. If its so easy for you just use mending and if someone wants to take Seed of Life as it was let them or don't let them in your group.

This is just too high for some people.

CHunterX · Aug 31, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

It's sad. I too agree that TNTF, even after nerf, is still the most useful Paragon skill. Lets look at the most widely used Paragon Elite (by my observations): Focused Anger. Sure, 120% or even 160% adrenaline gain is insanely awesome right? Oops, adrenaline gain bonus is capped at 100%, making anything after 10 Leadership pointless. Oops, "For Great Justice!" does the same thing, costs half, lasts half as long, but with a shorter recharge, isn't an elite, and requires NO ATTRIBUTE POINTS. Christ, could it get any worse for Paragons now? I can see the next nerf already: "Go For The Eyes!" Adding a recharge time perhaps?

Sorry for the rant, but the shit that Paragons have gone through is getting old. The skill may have been powerful, and it IS on my Paragon's skill bar, but sadly, I've only logged on as her twice since beating NF, and don't recall using it too often, or the results of its strength.

t_the_nihilst · Aug 31, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Well, the skill IS useless now, when you really think about it.

This is PvE anyway..

Another Junk skill to throw in my trashcan, Just like intensity, seriously useless.

Izzy puts PvE only spells into the game but completely rapes them with nerfs, to the point where no one wants them.

/agreed

fully, even.

Ecomancer · Aug 31, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

Balance in PvE exists, believe it or not. It's meant to keep it from becoming a C-Space Marathon where there is zero fear of dying. Seed of Life and "There's Nothing to Fear!" in their pre-nerf forms were exactly that - You had those skills and you did not die. Ever.

I certainly hope you were joking. I don't think equipping just SEED OF LIFE would heal a whole party, not if you have played a monk before. In fact people were surviving long before Seed of Life even existed.

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

In fact people were surviving long before Seed of Life even existed.

So why, exactly, does this whole nerf matter?

Really, I'm curious.

Ecomancer · Aug 31, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So why, exactly, does this whole nerf matter?

Really, I'm curious.

Firstly it doesn't matter unless you give it importance. See the thing is, the skill isn't worth equipping any longer due to its duration, energy cost and recast time. It just isn't worthwile to spend 10 energy on a 3 second at best enchantment. All I am trying to say is that why even bother designing new skills only to be rendered unusable and redundant within a short period of time. I would rather they spent their efforts on designing better non pve skills than pve garbage that is Seed of Life in its current state.

Still curious?

Faer · Aug 31, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixCarter

Who said that's the only skill you should use? Given the proper build, HS is just fine.

Yeah, but not a viable replacement for SoL. The way you were comparing them, SoL would have to have adjacent extra healing range, or HS would have to have party-wide healing. You can't simply say that HS is better than SoL, because for HS to do the job of SoL effectively, every party member has to be within adjacent range of the person getting the crap knocked out of them.

That's simply not "safe", nor practical. It's certainly not a practical comparison of the two. As a pure "tank" heal, it doesn't really matter, because one red bar is really easy to push up. Pushing eight up though in mere seconds with minimal effort? Healing Seed can't touch that.

On a different note, Avarre is the Queen of Mesmers. You may all take that as you will, but it will always remain true in my heart.

JoeKnowMo · Aug 31, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So why, exactly, does this whole nerf matter?

Really, I'm curious.

My guess is that it's because people did what it took (grind or not) to get these skills to a higher level, unlike regular skills that can be bought or capped and can't be raised further.

I would prefer the skills were nerfed when intensity et al were nerfed rather than keeping it un-nerfed for so long.

It's analagous to nerfing collector weapons vs. nerfing rare skinned ones.

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

Firstly it doesn't matter unless you give it importance.

That's what I thought. Yet, people seem to think it matters alot and is a terrible thing, hence the thread.

Quote:

I would rather they spent their efforts on designing better non pve skills

I agree. PvE skills, conceptually, have a lot of problems - stemming from the fact that because they are restricted, they must therefore be better in some way than the rest of the skills (all thousand+ of them). Hence, not only is the importance of the normal skills invalidated to an extent, but the effective variability of a bar is reduced, because there is a clear superiority in skill power.

psycore · Aug 31, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

The paragon nerf has really made me sad and angry at the same time.

We've been hit a few times because of pvp and that's understandable but to screw with pve skills?

C.Mon Anet get your act together and give the unused classes some love not this bs.

Keithark · Aug 31, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

The OP forgot to mention the "There's Nothing To Fear" nerf...which is quite funny, IMO.

Chance of Paragon getting into PUg in GW:EN: 0%.

Didn't forget it, just haven't played paragon since they nerfed them to death about 6 months ago so didn't notice it!

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

The paragon nerf has really made me sad and angry at the same time.

We've been hit a few times because of pvp and that's understandable but to screw with pve skills?

C.Mon Anet get your act together and give the unused classes some love not this bs.

Paragons were and are pretty excellent, actually. The majority of the PvE community has a very incorrect impression of them. Anet nerfed a skill that was ridiculously overpowered to a level where it is still fully usable.

The class has strong DPS, high armor, and significant damage reduction - making them solid choices for areas with heavy damage to be reduced.

gene terrodon · Aug 31, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

If you can't keep your party alive without seed of life, delete your monk.
It was ridiculously overpowered and even a blind person could see this coming.

Ecomancer · Aug 31, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

If you can't keep your party alive without seed of life, delete your monk.
It was ridiculously overpowered and even a blind person could see this coming.

I can keep my party alive with pretty much 2 skills, LoD and Heal Party that doesn't mean I can't use other skills in the game to help me does it? Amusing how you say its ridiculously overpowered, when in fact the most use out of it was against melee damage dealers and that too if the WHOLE team was getting hit. It was a conditional healing seed partywide. If anything, it would have been more realistic to have it cost 15E instead of 10.

Name any other useful enchantment spell that can be learned for both pve and pvp that last 3 seconds and doesn't take hours upon hours to obtain usability.